Eden and Innocence - Revision history

Wakefien at 16:36, 11 March 2019

2019-03-11T16:36:41Z

Wakefien: /* Opening */

2019-03-11T16:35:13Z

‎Opening

Wakefien: /* Innocence */

2019-02-20T16:11:02Z

‎Innocence

Wakefien: /* Innocence */

2019-02-19T16:19:04Z

‎Innocence

Wakefien: /* Opening */

2019-02-14T21:53:11Z

‎Opening

Wakefien: /* Opening */

2019-02-14T21:50:45Z

‎Opening

Wakefien: /* Opening */

2019-02-14T21:47:25Z

‎Opening

Wakefien at 21:29, 14 February 2019

2019-02-14T21:29:48Z

Wakefien: /* A Covenant of Works? */

2019-02-14T21:28:16Z

‎A Covenant of Works?

Wakefien at 21:26, 14 February 2019

2019-02-14T21:26:58Z

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 =Main Body=
 The Bible contains a significant number of covenants.  So how do we view this covenants from a dispensational perspective.  Recall that a covenant is
-A chosen relationship between 2 parties in which one or both parties make binding promises to one another and a covenant can be conditional or unconditional.
+a chosen relationship between 2 parties in which one or both parties make binding promises to one another and a covenant can be conditional or unconditional.
 ==A Covenant of Works?==
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 *What parties are discussed in Genesis 1:28-30?  Do the parties come to an agreement?
-**God and humanity.  Adam is representative of the whole human race.  How do we know? Because Eve is also responsible for the conditions although she is not explicitly mentioned.  However, we do not see, in this passage the two parties coming to an agreement.  For this reason it is hard to argue this is a covenant.
+**God and humanity.  Adam is representative of the whole human race.  How do we know? Because Eve is also responsible for the conditions although she is not explicitly mentioned.  However, we do not see, in this passage the two parties coming to an agreement.  For this reason, it is hard to argue this is a covenant.
 *What requirements are set forth in Genesis 1:28-30?
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 *What do we learn about the consequences of Adam's sin according to 1 Corinthians 15:21-22?
-**Adam's sin brought death upon all humanity.  Notice a few things here.  When we talked about Genesis 1:28-30 and 2:15-17 Adam was the only party present but the promises were promises to humanity with Adam as the representative.  Similarly, the consequences are consequences to all of humanity with Adam as the representative.  I have been careful not to call this a covenant (or deny it is a covenant) but one thing that is clear is that the effects are still seen and felt today.  I do not believe that the dispensation of Grace was immediately ushered in rather the death discussed in Genesis 2 is spiritual separation from the life giver and that sam death remains in effect today for all those without Christ.
+**Adam's sin brought death upon all humanity.  Notice a few things here.  When we talked about Genesis 1:28-30 and 2:15-17 Adam was the only party present but the promises were promises to humanity with Adam as the representative.  Similarly, the consequences are consequences to all of humanity with Adam as the representative.  I have been careful not to call this a covenant (or deny it is a covenant) but one thing that is clear is that the effects are still seen and felt today.  I do not believe that the dispensation of Grace was immediately ushered in rather the death discussed in Genesis 2 is spiritual separation from the life giver and that same death remains in effect today for all those without Christ.
 ==Innocence==
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 *What does The Fall demonstrate about man?
-**Even in complete innocence man still needs God.  It is not enough to be created sinless ben in innocence man still failed.  The only solution for man is God.
+**Even in complete innocence man still needs God.  It is not enough to be created sinless, even in innocence man still failed.  The only solution for man is God.
 *What was the ultimate attack that Satan leveraged against Adam and Eve?
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 =Conclusion=
-*The failure of Adam and Eve in the dispensation of innocence demonstrates that even in the absence of a personal sin nature, Man still failed to obey.  Galatians 5:17 teaches us that our flesh wars against our spirit and each of us can testify that the war is very real, our sin nature is very real.  However, all to often, I am guilty of blaming my sin nature.  The fact is, that even without sin nature, Adam fell.  We need God.  How do you personally need God this week?
+*The failure of Adam and Eve in the dispensation of innocence demonstrates that even in the absence of a personal sin nature, man still failed to obey.  Galatians 5:17 teaches us that our flesh wars against our spirit and each of us can testify that the war is very real, our sin nature is very real.  However, all to often, I am guilty of blaming my sin nature.  The fact is, that even without sin nature, Adam fell.  We need God.  How do you personally need God this week?
 =References=

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 One of the most fascinating aspects of this question is the fact that this question is nothing new.  In fact, this question is not even a fundamentally Christian question.  Consider the following passage taken from the Apocryphal book 2 Esdres 7:46-48 (Note: it may not be edifying to actually read an apocryphal passage depending on the group.  If that is the case then just summarizing this may be helpful)<blockquote>I answered then and said, This is my first and last saying, that it had been better not to have given the earth unto Adam: or else, when it was given him, to have restrained him from sinning. For what profit is it for men now in this present time to live in heaviness, and after death to look for punishment? O thou Adam, what hast thou done? for though it was thou that sinned, thou art not fallen alone, but we all that come of thee. </blockquote> What we see is that 2nd Temple Judaism already had the notion that the sin of Adam brought devastating results.
-**Perhaps a partial answer to the question of why God created is because by creating God was able to do more than merely annihilate sin, God was able to defeat sin.  By creating God was able to show that in everyday He is good and sin is inferior.
+**Perhaps a partial answer to the question of why God created is because by creating God was able to do more than merely annihilate sin, God was able to defeat sin.  By creating God was able to show that in everything He is good and sin is inferior.
 Dispensationalism is "a 'divine order of affairs' or a 'period of administration.'  It is a specific time in the unfolding drama of redemption wherein God ordains a specific arrangement of events and commands for a specific purpose.  His purpose includes the defeat of evil."<ref>Geisler, Norman L. Systematic theology: In one volume. Bethany House, 2011. pg 796</ref>. Through a careful study of the dispensations we can see how God's plan unfolds and how He uses each dispensation to demonstrate His goodness and defeat evil.

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 *How are Adam and Eve described in Genesis 2:25?
 **Adam and Eve are described as having no knowledge of evil.  Their lack of knowledge is exemplified by their lack of shame at their nakedness.  Together with Genesis 3:5 we see that they had no idea of what evil was and the temptation for evil came from outside of them.
 *What event takes place in Genesis 3:1-7?

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 *What does The Fall demonstrate about man?
 **Even in complete innocence man still needs God.  It is not enough to be created sinless ben in innocence man still failed.  The only solution for man is God.
 =Conclusion=

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:53, 14 February 2019
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	**Perhaps a partial answer to the question of why God created is because by creating God was able to do more than merely annihilate sin, God was able to defeat sin. By creating God was able to show that in everyday He is good and sin is inferior.		**Perhaps a partial answer to the question of why God created is because by creating God was able to do more than merely annihilate sin, God was able to defeat sin. By creating God was able to show that in everyday He is good and sin is inferior.
		+
		+	Dispensationalism is "a 'divine order of affairs' or a 'period of administration.' It is a specific time in the unfolding drama of redemption wherein God ordains a specific arrangement of events and commands for a specific purpose. His purpose includes the defeat of evil."<ref>Geisler, Norman L. Systematic theology: In one volume. Bethany House, 2011. pg 796</ref>. Through a careful study of the dispensations we can see how God's plan unfolds and how He uses each dispensation to demonstrate His goodness and defeat evil.

	=Main Body=		=Main Body=

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 *Why did God create?  Wouldn't it have been better for God to have not created us at all?  I mean seriously, consider sin.
-One of the most fascinating aspects of this question is the fact that this question is nothing new.  In fact, this question is not even a fundamentally Christian question.  Consider the following passage taken from the Apocryphal book 2 Esdres 7:46-48 <blockquote>I answered then and said, This is my first and last saying, that it had been better not to have given the earth unto Adam: or else, when it was given him, to have restrained him from sinning. For what profit is it for men now in this present time to live in heaviness, and after death to look for punishment? O thou Adam, what hast thou done? for though it was thou that sinned, thou art not fallen alone, but we all that come of thee. </blockquote>. What we see is that 2nd Temple Judaism already had the notion that the sin of Adam brought devastating results.
+One of the most fascinating aspects of this question is the fact that this question is nothing new.  In fact, this question is not even a fundamentally Christian question.  Consider the following passage taken from the Apocryphal book 2 Esdres 7:46-48 (Note: it may not be edifying to actually read an apocryphal passage depending on the group.  If that is the case then just summarizing this may be helpful)<blockquote>I answered then and said, This is my first and last saying, that it had been better not to have given the earth unto Adam: or else, when it was given him, to have restrained him from sinning. For what profit is it for men now in this present time to live in heaviness, and after death to look for punishment? O thou Adam, what hast thou done? for though it was thou that sinned, thou art not fallen alone, but we all that come of thee. </blockquote> What we see is that 2nd Temple Judaism already had the notion that the sin of Adam brought devastating results.
 =Main Body=

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:47, 14 February 2019
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	=Opening=		=Opening=
		+	*Why did God create? Wouldn't it have been better for God to have not created us at all? I mean seriously, consider sin.
		+
		+	One of the most fascinating aspects of this question is the fact that this question is nothing new. In fact, this question is not even a fundamentally Christian question. Consider the following passage taken from the Apocryphal book 2 Esdres 7:46-48 <blockquote>I answered then and said, This is my first and last saying, that it had been better not to have given the earth unto Adam: or else, when it was given him, to have restrained him from sinning. For what profit is it for men now in this present time to live in heaviness, and after death to look for punishment? O thou Adam, what hast thou done? for though it was thou that sinned, thou art not fallen alone, but we all that come of thee. </blockquote>. What we see is that 2nd Temple Judaism already had the notion that the sin of Adam brought devastating results.

	=Main Body=		=Main Body=

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 *One claim of theologians who subscribe to a Covenant of Works is that there was a Federal Headship in which Adam as a representative of mankind fell on behalf of mankind.  However, Romans 5:12 claims that sin entered the world through one man and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because '''all''' sinned.  How could it be that all sinned?
 **In contrast to a federal headship the claim that all sinned supports a seminal head.  Specifically, as seed of Adam we were all present in Adam when he sinned and so we are all individually guilty of sin.  In fact, the Bible makes arguments like this in the case of Melchizedek, <blockquote>Biblical evidence supports the natural headship of Adam. When presenting the superiority of Melchizedek’s priesthood to Aaron’s, the author of Hebrews argued that Levi, the head of the priestly tribe, “who collects the 10th, paid the 10th through Abraham, because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor” (Heb. 7:9–10). <ref>John A. Witmer, “Romans,” in The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures, ed. J. F. Walvoord and R. B. Zuck, vol. 2 (Wheaton, IL: Victor Books, 1985), 458.</ref></blockquote>
 ==Eden==